The Case of Richard Shelby & Ben Nighthorse Campbell: What If YouTube Existed In 1998?
By Martin A. Knight Posted in ben nighthorse campbell | flip-flops | Mitt Romney | Republicans | Republicans | richard shelby — Comments (22) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
In the aftermath of 1994, in fact the day after the Gingrich/Barbour led Republican Party's recapture of the House and Senate after forty years in the wilderness caused Peter Jennings to chide the American people for having a temper tantrum, an eight year veteran Democratic Senator announced his defection to the GOP. Richard Shelby had been a Democratic Congressman for eight years before he defeated Republican Senator Jeremiah Denton (the very first elected Republican Senator from the state of Alabama since Reconstruction) in the elections of 1986.
In contrast to the way the New York Times would greet the defection of James Jeffords from the GOP to the Democrats i.e. "A Profile in Courage" seven years later, the Gray/Blue (i.e. Democratic) Lady's title for the story of Shelby's move across the aisle was "A Profile in Opportunism."
In March of 1995, another long-term Democratic politician, also a Unites States Senator traveled Shelby's path to the other side of the aisle. Ben Nighthorse Campbell had served four years as a Democratic member of the Colorado General Assembly, six years as a Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives and two and a quarter years as a Democratic Senator before becoming a Republican.
Both these men ran for re-election in 1998, the first time for the both of them running under the Republican banner. Richard Shelby was very conservative even as a Democrat so he was more than tolerable to even those Republicans who resented him for defeating the staunchly pro-Reagan war hero that was Senator Denton in 1986. So, despite the Democrats' vow of vengeance for his defection he won re-election with 63% of the vote.
Campbell was another matter altogether. As Vincent Carroll wrote in this National Review article in late 1997;
Campbell voted for the Clinton tax hike of 1993, praised the introduction of ClintonCare, and generally could be counted upon to smear anyone to the right, say, of George Bush [the elder] as a "kook" or "extremist." Indeed, insofar as Campbell has never been identified with any of the pressing concerns of the wave of Republicans who took over the Capitol in 1994 - welfare and tort reform, wholesale budget cuts, devolution of authority to the states, etc. - his decision to switch parties was, and remains, a puzzlement.
And even after his switch, a year later he voted for an increase in the minimum wage, voted in favor of abortions abroad being funded with American foreign aid dollars and expressed some significant support for racial preference policies. But all that said, he had switched, he was the incumbent and he wanted to run for re-election as a Republican. More interestingly, he faced a challenger in the Primaries in the far more Conservative (even if mildly pro-choice) and trustworthy Republican Rep. Scott McInnis.
Ultimately, the party leadership (including quite a few movement conservative leaders) prevailed on McInnis to drop his bid to challenge Campbell, and Nighthorse went on his merry way to trounce his Democratic opponent with an eeriely similar (to Shelby) 62.5%. The logic, as National Review columnist (and former New York Times reporter) Clifford May, then the RNC's Communications Director pointed out;
The big point is that if a guy switches from the Dems to the GOP and then gets kicked in the head in a primary, what does that say to the next guy who may think about switching?
As it turned out Campbell didn't get kicked in the head and it turned out pretty well for the GOP and Conservatives. Campbell's lifetime ACU rating as at his retirement may be an anemic 55%, but that is colored by his eight years in Congress as a Democrat. Despite his remaining something of a moderate (in the Giuliani, not Whitman sense), starting from 1995, his rating went up from an awful 24% in 1994 to the high 50s and onward until it settled into a high 80s average in the last six to seven years of his Senate career. There was even a year where he scored a full 16 points (80% - 64%) above Conservative all-star Wayne Allard.
Well, that's it for the background history lesson. The main point of it is that today I am wondering, how these two defectors from the Democrats to the GOP, especially Campbell, would have fared in the age of YouTube and blogs where Shelby's many statements and ads in his race to displace Reaganite Jerry Denton, and Campbell's pre-Republican heresies against conservatism and attacks on Republicans, could have been disseminated throughout the Dextrosphere for our outrage, shock and horror.
I guess I am a little non-plussed at how these two gentlemen were welcomed with open arms by the Party leadership and the rank and file (judging from their general election victory margins in a year in which Republicans posted up net losses), despite years of being actively (in both word and deed) on the other side, defeating good Conservative candidates and voting for liberal legislation. Arguably more deserving conservative Republicans of long and good standing were available to run for those two seats. And furthermore, the timing of their defections could not have possibly been more arousing of suspicion. Yet they were accepted.
Contrast this with the unrelenting vituperation and outright hostility that greeted and continues to attend the candidacy of a man whose every foray in electoral politics was as a Republican in a state where Ted Kennedy's victory margin would only go down by a maximum of three points if he was caught in bed with both a live boy and a dead girl because the alternative is a {gasp!} Republican. Not that it matters, but not only has this man spent his entire political career as a Republican, every single politically inclined member of his family, father, mother and sister have only ever been Republicans.
Personally, I don't really believe that there's any significant number of base Republicans whose opposition to Romney is based on an anti-Mormon animus. I choose to believe that the reason given by most is the actual reason; he's a "flip-flopper™" and they don't "trust" him. That's all well and good. But that still does not explain the seething antipathy that characterizes anti-Romney posters on this and other sites where conservatives gather. The idea that a person is to be reviled because he has loudly and openly adopted positions you are in favor of at a "too convenient" time is not exactly a recipe for encouraging more people to make the same journey at any time.
To those who say that this hostility (distinct from warranted suspicion) is warranted because Mitt Romney's positions on one or two issues were different in 1994 and 2002 (when he ran a more conservative campaign), I point to Senators Shelby and Campbell - there's no "flip-flop™" more profound than defections, and both of these men did make that leap, and yet less than four years later faced not 5% of the ever-present and unrelenting hostility from the base as Romney has faced since the moment he announced his candidacy nearly eighteen months ago. No large groundswell of the Alabama Republican rank and file stood up in arms citing the Democrat's very own New York Times' bitter "Profiles in Opportunism" article as a pillar upon which to oppose Richard Shelby the way so many Republicans have taken to heart material from the Massachusetts Democratic Party's Office of Opposition Research i.e. the Boston Globe.
Now a lot of people would point out that this is the Presidency, not the Senate where one would be one of a hundred, and that Romney should spend more than three years as a full spectrum conservative before aiming for the White House. I don't particularly find this that convincing - particularly since a lot of the people who make this argument are numbered among the very same people who expected Republicans of all stripes to mourn the loss of Lincoln Chafee since his victory would supposedly (unwisely assuming he would not defect) have allowed the GOP to retain control of the Senate. After Jim Jeffords' jump, and the losses of 2006, we all know how important just one Senator can be.
On this same track of thought is that many of these same people have argued that conservatives should be more tolerant of those Republicans who so often fail to toe the party line, both while campaigning and in office, if they happened to represent the Bluer states and districts in Congress. So where's this same tolerance now for a guy who ran in a Blue state, and is toeing the line? Romney ran both of his races in Massachusetts - not Colorado, not Alabama, not even New York - Massa-freakin'-chusetts. As a Republican in a state where being a Republican ranks not much higher than being a pedophile. If he was truly the politically unprincipled power-hungry opportunist so many of his Boston Globe quoting critics claim he must be (supposedly much more so than Senators Shelby and Campbell), why did he not take the much easier path and run as a Democrat?
What is striking here is that the tolerance and understanding the base is often urged to extend towards Republicans like Snowe, Specter, Collins and even Chafee is so well nigh absent in the case of Romney. More interesting is the ignoring of the fact that not even Reagan, facing a near uniformly hostile state Fourth Estate, a 137D to 19R State House, a 35D to 5R State Senate, a 7D to 1R "Governor's Council" to assent to every nomination before it proceeds to the 87%D Senate for confirmation, and a State Supreme Court with a long standing very liberal judicial activist majority, could have produced a more conservative record as Governor.
Instead, a lot of people that I'm reasonably certain can without any trouble point out the distinction between a broad based tax hike and the raising of service fees to bring them in line with inflation and the cost of providing and administering those services are now completely unable to figure out the difference. Romney signs a law abolishing/easing three of the toughest-in-the-nation burdens placed on gun owners in Massachusetts and a guy here (Centerfire, I think) denounces what is a clearly pro-gun action because a majority of General Court Democrats were in favor of it (having such a supermajority by definition means bills only pass with majority party support) - given that Romney's three immediate predecessors as Governor of Massachusetts failed to somehow have this bill sent to their desks, I still don't understand the logic behind it. Romney vetoes a bill that appropriates Massachusetts taxpayer dollars for Embryonic Stem Cell Research and the reaction is that he faked it.
To the pained shrieks and outrage of the Massachusetts and national media, he cajoles and harangues a reluctant Democratic supermajority until they are forced to take the steps as demanded by the Massachusetts Constitution to place the Goodridge decision before the voters, and of course, this is supposedly overshadowed by his campaign for the Senate 14 years ago. He used his veto 800 times, mostly on fiscal grounds and, of course, because his vetoes were overridden (137D to 19R - 35D to 5R), according to the same critics, he is a confirmed fiscal liberal. Another guy here offers the argument that since Romney publicly expressed sympathy (which I believe most have) for the plight of illegal immigrant children, he was in favor of in-state tuition for illegals. That Romney actually vetoed a bill enacted to effect in-state tuition for illegal immigrants was not enough to prove the opposite.
On immigration, Romney is reported as having said that the stated goals of John McCain's immigration reform plan "sounds reasonable." But this was before Ted Kennedy and McCain went crazy and added in so many happy fun Left-Wing goodies; in-state tuition, family re-unification, *wink* fines *wink*, Z-visas (to be issued without fail in 24 hours even if a background check is not yet complete), etc. The bill acquired so many unsavory features as it made its way to the Senate floor that it was an entirely different from what it started as. But of course, since Romney is Romney, his support for one bill and opposition to another is a "flip-flop!™."
The thing one notices is that practically all of Romney's supposed wrongs and heresies are no more than rhetoric from his campaigns in 1994 and 2002. But when you look at his deeds as Governor, I repeat that I doubt anyone would say that even Reagan could have done better in a state as Blue as Massachusetts. What makes this even more interesting is that Romney ran in 1994 on much of the same agenda items, holding the same positions as Newt Gingrich's Contract With America, only stripped and shorn of its Republican identity and origins as is generally necessary for a Republican to remain a viable candidate in Massachusetts. The infamous 1994 flyer is here ... note that the only place where he deviates from the standard issue conservative is abortion - and note that he was already talking tough on illegal immigration in freakin' 1994.
This is why I continue to wonder if Richard Shelby and Ben Nighthorse Campbell would have survived their party switches if YouTube and blogs were around in 1998. Shelby and most especially Campbell were not known for the lack of purple prose they leveled at Republicans in both the House and Senate as Democrats. Campbell even voted for HillaryCare. In 1998, both had been Republicans for less than four years, after we had won the majority. I doubt the Romney critics who go back fourteen years to look for reasons to attack Mitt Romney as the greatest "flip-flopper" in the history of mankind would have thought anything of going back just four in search of material so they can say to much fanfare that "I can't trust Nighthorse/Shelby. I have no idea what he really truly believes."
What I am saying here after all this verbiage is that I believe that the vast majority of the anti-Romney folks on this site (and others) were never open to him in the first place. And this includes most of those who claim that he "lost" them over this or that issue since the start of the current campaign - they were in reality waiting for the slightest misstep or imperfection to support an already held conviction.
Ultimately, while Romney has more than his share of faults (especially in the negativity of his campaign earlier on), for his critics it was more of a case of giving a dog a bad name and hanging him. Consequently nothing the man did was ever not for some nefarious reason, everything he said was pre-concluded as false. His chances as a general election candidate have been rubbished each and every single day based on the same type of too-early polls that in 1980 showed Reagan losing to Carter by double digits. Any minor change of emphasis or non-substantial difference from one speech to another was designated a "flip-flop!" and highlighted as another example of why Mitt was the slimiest thing since toad [expletive deleted].
Quite frankly, I think the hyperbole (e.g. "to the Left of Kennedy") crossed the line into falsehood all too often. We had people accusing him of running on positions he never held, changes in positions ("flip-flops™") he's never changed, interpreting the most innocuous statements specifically to divine whatever meaning necessary to effect the discovery of another "flip-flop!™" Worse is that the newer McCainiacs are no longer content to attack Romney - they're (especially this Moby numbskull) going after his family. Almost as bad is seeing Republicans denigrating a business career that is everything we supporters of free markets have always claimed to admire.
Call this whining or whatever. This is not going to have any effect on tomorrow's voting. I just want to highlight the fact that we once treated two defectors, who came to us in more suspicious circumstances, a great deal better than a person who was with us and carried our banner when they were still Democrats, and in a state that was a great deal more hostile territory than Alabama or Colorado.
I blame YouTube ;-)
See my comment below.
Romney's not dead yet, and he will bite McCain's knee caps off no matter what the McCainanities say.
You may want to fix the link to the Moby numbskull by taking out the s in /users/. Better yet a direct link would be fun to add insults to the Moby. ;)
On a totally off topic note, YouTube would've died in 1998 due to 28.8K modem hell.
Last random thought. No matter what happens tomorrow, it's been a journey and an educating one at that.
Shelby could have switched way before - his record was solidly conservative - but didn't until the Dems lost the majority. The fact that he is a nice guy, and a good conservative, doesn't change this fact.
Campbell switched because of his anger at the Democratic leadership on the balanced budget amendment. I believe he was disgusted by the fact that many Dems campaigned for the amendment, but then voted against it when it came up in the Senate.
Is the argument that we should blame YouTube and new technologies for putting an incredible expansion of knowledge at our fingertips that has been instrumental in learning more about our political candidates?
I enjoyed the article, but I feel the question is simple. If YouTube existed in 1998, Ben Nighthorse Campbell would have lost, because voters probably would have united behind McInnis and there would be minimal pressure from the RNC to prevent him from running. On Shelby, I'm not as certain, given his conservatism. Why? Because the voting population would be more knowledgeable of their candidates. For that, I thank YouTube.
Has Romney gotten the short end of the stick? Maybe. But I think what happened in 2008 is that Romney never found a compelling reason why he was better than the other candidates given his lack of experience and history of changing positions, which is certainly fair game when deciding who will lead the free world.
And no, I disagree with you. I think even if YouTube existed in 1998, Ben Campbell had a very good chance of holding McInnis off in a Primary and then winning in November. He beat his opponent in a landslide, after all.
And second, video technology did exist in 1998, so it would have been an easy matter for McInnis to have ads made highlighting many of Campbells more non-Conservative and anti-Republican statements prior to his switch.
... given his ... history of changing positions ...
Thank you for helping me illustrate my point. How much of this "history" really is history? YouTube is an amazing asset, but the use of it by Republicans to tarnish the reputation of a Republican whose only sin is to have moved to the Right at the so-called "wrong time" is depressing.
What happened is that some enterprising individual cut a few clips of his debate with Ted Kennedy, where the focus was on social issues, in his 1994 run for the Senate and posted it up on YouTube. That's perfectly legitimate. It shows clearly that some of his positions, especially on abortion and gun control were on the Left side of the spectrum fourteen years ago.
The problem is what happened next. Think of how when a message is passed along verbally, it tends to change. i.e. "Why is your face so pale?" transmogrifies into "Why is this place so stale?" by the time it gets to the twentieth person. Or how a tale becomes taller and taller with each retelling.
Romney changed his position on two or three social issues swiftly became he has changed his position on every single issue, then it became he has changed his position on every single issue more than once, then it became he changes his position on every single issue more than once every single day.
The end-result is that if Romney pets a cat today and is seen walking a dog tomorrow, it's a "flip-flop!™". Heck, Romney says he would like to see legal immigration of skilled workers increase and we have people screaming that he secretly wants open borders i.e. "flip-flop!™."
Romney says he wants to put more resources (i.e. money - $20 billion) into government research on "energy research, fuel technology, materials science, and automotive technology" and, because it's Romney, people leap en masse to the conclusion that he just announced a bail out of the American automobile industry. Despite the fact that in the same speech he actually also said "I am not open to a bail out."
See what I mean?
In other words, while YouTube is a phenomenally positive development, like a newspaper headline it can be used to create false impressions and vigilance is necessary.
My point about highlighting Shelby and Campbell is that if someone in 1998 had posted up video on YouTube featuring clips of them attacking Republicans when they were still Democrats prior to 1994, reacting to it the way so many have to the Romney clips would have done us a lot of damage.
It would have sent a message to Conservative Democrats that if you defect to the GOP, Republicans would end your career just like how this campaign is telling more moderate Republicans that moving to the Right only ends up getting you despised by Conservatives.
I think we need to understand the background and the state of the party, which I believe is far more enlightening on this topic, especially thanks to Tomlinson Douthat's incredible summary, The Nixon Way.
Specifically, I'll take out three passages from his summary that I think are most appropriate for this discussion.
But the problem with this explanation is that, so long as this sort of Nixonian politics is being practiced, no other outcome is likely. The Republicans of this era, like Bush and Nixon before them, were juggling the interests of competing factions, keeping everybody just happy enough but earning nobody's loyalty. Any effort they might make along these lines to expand their base of support to the point where such a small cohort would no longer be able to thwart the will of the majority of the caucus would run the serious risk of alienating some small but electorally necessary contingent of their existing supporters, which could easily be fatal to their loyalty to the party, since it had done so little to earn their loyalty. The Nixonian strategy, then, can lead to a vicious circle. If you pursue this strategy, you will probably do no better than a slim majority, which in turn necessitates a legislative strategy that can only serve to benefit a Nixonian electoral strategy. And every time this cycle is repeated, all the factions of the party lose a little bit more enthusiasm for the cause. During the nineties, Clinton was employing the Nixonian strategy himself, only his version was called triangulation. When two sides, with similar resources, employ similar strategies against each other, the likely result is a stalemate. And that is pretty much what happened, thereby ensuring that this vicious circle would continue to obtain for the GOP throughout his term in office.
And now today we have an entirely fresh crop of presidential candidates, each of whom appears to be trying exactly the approach Nixon advised, and which, over the years, has caused a dangerous amount of discontent within the party. Rudy Giuliani has remade himself entirely from a prototypical Rockefeller Republican that he was through the whole of his mayoralty (Nelson Rockefeller was tough on crime too) into what he would have us believe is a down-the-line conservative today, outside of the piddlingly small matter of abortion. Mitt Romney has tried to do much the same thing, but far more blatantly and even less convincingly. Both of these have phrased many of their newly conservative positions in just such a way that will allow them to run back to the center when the time comes. Likewise, Mike Huckabee has adopted a number of conservative positions on economic, foreign, and immigration policy, but quite unconvincingly and in stark contrast both to his record as governor and to many of his current talking points. Even straight-talking John McCain has discovered the value of immigration enforcement at a very convenient juncture, and he has obscured his a number of his unconservative positions of late.
The current situation has put Republicans at each others' throats, not on the basis of substantial disagreements—which are fairly trivial within the Republican primary electorate, at least—but on the basis of the mere prioritization of areas in which substantial agreement exists. Republicans of all stripes, having accepted as inevitable that their political leaders will sell them out, have turned the primaries from an exercise in choosing the best candidate into an effort to gain some measure of control over the way they will be sold out.
Now, with the current state of the Republican Party understood as at the breaking point where each faction distrusts each other and where tolerance for our politicians is at its lowest since Watergate, the distrust and animosity towards Mitt Romney can be more easily understood. A candidate like Mitt Romney, originally exposed through YouTube and bloggers for having a history of passionately debating liberal policies against Ted Kennedy and then later seemingly all-too-expedient policies in 2002 and then immediately followed by his less than convincing pro-life conversion amidst presidential speculation, is clearly going to face immediate problems with credibility. It didn't help that the Romney campaign was immaculately rehearsed and often waged classic triangulative and seemingly dishonest tactics which only helped to continue his reputation among conservatives as someone not to be trusted.
I was one of those turned off by Romney. In fact, I still don't trust him. But because of a complete lack of better candidates, I've become a Romney supporter because against McCain, Romney may be a snake, but at least for the time being, he's our snake in this fight.
This is where I disagree with you. I don't think that Romney's only problem was that he moved to the right at the wrong time. It was that he failed to convince those that had every reason to distrust him that he was genuinely their best choice for the presidency. YouTube, combined with the current state of the party offered Romney a large hurdle to jump, but it wasn't YouTube's fault. It was Romney's failure to communicate himself in a genuine way. By the time he got to Michigan and made the speech you brought up, the train was already off the tracks not because of a failure of conservatives to realize Romney should have been their guy, but because Romney's campaign did an awful job. At every turn, the Romney campaign consistently triangulated, calculated, and attempted to manipulate voters instead of campaigning in a way seen as honest. That's why he failed and that's why in the game of political telephone, Romney isn't able to get his message out.
I would then say that comparing Romney to Nighthorse and Shelby would be inaccurate for being two cases in entirely different situations, especially within the state of the Republican Party.
Finally, and this goes back to everything I've stated in this comment, I disagree with your conclusion. As long as a politician remains genuine in their decisions, their slide to the right will not cause any angst from conservatives. However, if you move right the year before an election you're trying to compete for and fail to communicate effectively your slide as being genuine, then yes, expect to be despised. And rightfully so! Besides that, I think the Romney case holds no argument against moderates moving to the right.
There is a big difference here that you are not picking up on. It's not that people are beating up on Mitt because he became more conservative - it's that he is then taking this 'Holier than thou' position and ran contrast/attack ads against others saying that he is the most conservative. If Mitt had run as a technocrat I think he would have been a lot less vulnerable to this - but instead he tried to position himself as the 'true conservative'. Neither Shelby nor Campbell did this.
It's not that people are beating up on Mitt because he became more conservative - it's that he is then taking this 'Holier than thou' position and ran contrast/attack ads against others saying that he is the most conservative.
Nope. All you need to do is check Redstate's own archives to see this is not true. It's just as untrue as the Left-Wing storyline that BDS began only after the War in Iraq.
People started beating up on Romney as a liar, a fake and a dishonorable SOB from the moment he made it clear he intended to throw his hat into the ring, while he was Governor of Massachusetts ... nearly two years before he started running any of his (admittedly dumba**) contrast ads.
I'll make this simple:
I'd support Mitt Romney for Governor again.
I'd support Shelby or Campbell for Senate again.
I support none of them for President.
Simple.
John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"
I can understand Campbell, although it must be said that his ACU numbers in his last four years in the Senate are on the aggregate better than John McCain's.
As for Shelby, why the hell not? He is as conservative as the day is long, he's been the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee (national security experience right there) and by all accounts has been a strong Republican. Why would you automatically dismiss him as a candidate if he had thrown his hat in the ring? Because he was once a Democrat (like Reagan)? Or because of when he switched?
As for Mitt, well ... I can understand being hesitant to support a Massachusetts Republican for President ...
I wouldn't support him for a lot of reasons. But I would support him before Romney or Campbell.
There's also a difference between being elected as a Democrat in the 1980's and just voting for them in the 40's.
John Bolton for President
"FEAR THE 'STACH!!!"
Wubbies World, MSgt, USAF (Retired):
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("An argument is a sequence of statements aimed at demonstrating the truth of an assertion.); }
One. Richard Shelby never flip flopped. He was a conservative D whose party left him.
Two. Senator Campbell switched because he was mad at the leadership of his party. He did not really have anything to gain from switching. He was not about to be beaten in a state that has proven they care more about personality in Senators than party affiliation.
Mitt Romney is stung most when his conversion is described as happening "on the way to Des Moines." He did not evolve, or grow, rather he lied for his own political gain. That is the lowest and slimiest thing a politician can do.
Al Gore lost the state of TN because he turned his back on the tobacco farmers. He claimed he did so because his sister died of lung cancer. That was no more true than the reason he gave for going from being pro life to pro choice. Al Gore switched for his own political gain. That is why many who knew him best reviled him most.
Neither situation you described is the same as Romney. Jeffords switching for a promised seat? Getting closer...but still not as grossly blatant.
He did not evolve, or grow, rather he lied for his own political gain. That is the lowest and slimiest thing a politician can do.
You're drinking the Romney-hater coolaid, friend. It really would be stupid to expect Republican politicians to have the exact same positions no matter where they run, since that would be a recipe for never winning anything in purple or blue states.
But more importantly you're totally nuts on the lie thing. Changing political positions to benefit a political campaign isn't lieing and lying is very, very far from the worst thing a politician can do. Hitler was honest, yo. Get some perspective.
Reasonable and realistic.
I would point out that conversions generally get more attention than lifelong memebrs in any group.
I would also suggest that this is actually an argument that should apply to McCain and Huckabee, not just Romney.
Huckabee has done the most amazing 180 headspinning flip-flop on immigration ever and he barely catches any flak on it.
And McCain keeps catching flak because he hasn't really changed positions on anything. He makes vague noises about having come around on immigration without giving specifics and then turns around and says he'd still sign McCain-Kennedy.


and very good insight
BTW...rothnra was booted...his page don't work no more.
Jack Bauer For President 2008