Redstate

RedHot is for short posts and links. I wanted to offer my two cents on an issue and it seemed a little short for a stand alone post. I felt like offering more than just a comment in a 300 comment thread so I put it on RedHot.

If Erick or others think I am abusing my privileges, or not following blog etiquette, I am sure they will tell me. I was not attempting to cut off venting or anything else. I was simply giving my opinion. Since I had strong feelings on the matter, I left the comments open so people could disagree if they wanted to.

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Kevin Holtsberry
Managing Editor
www.StopHerNow.com

I am saying voting Dem solves nothing and renders partisan politics meaningless.

BTW, I am not hurt by the suggestion that people ignore my ideas. I was just setting out my own threshold for taking people seriously. Your mileage may vary.

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Kevin Holtsberry
Managing Editor
www.StopHerNow.com

and I was not trying to convince any skeptics. Perhaps, I should have made clear I was speaking to and about Republicans.

If someone considers themselves a Republican and feels comfortable voting for any of the Ds then their notion of partisan politics is simply beyond my understanding. Given that wide of a disconnect, persuasion or argument seems pointless.

I can see not supporting Huckabee and even not voting or voting for a third party in protest. But I can't support voting for the Democrats and still considering yourself a Republican.

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Kevin Holtsberry
Managing Editor
www.StopHerNow.com

Quite simply this goes beyond political affiliation.

Being a good republican is 3rd on my list of political priorities. Country is in the number one spot.

So I look at Huckabee and I see someone that is willing to sell out those around him for his particular interpretation of faith.

Then I look at Hillary and I see someone weaned on Machiavelli.

Its a toss up. The only thing that prevents me from going Hillary is Right to life, and the fact that Huckabee will be beholden to the GOP and will have to work with the GOP in congress to get things done.

Hillary winds up with a box of blank cheques and all the pens she could want.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

"Its a toss up. The only thing that prevents me from going Hillary is Right to life, and the fact that Huckabee will be beholden to the GOP and will have to work with the GOP in congress to get things done.

Hillary winds up with a box of blank cheques and all the pens she could want."

With Huck as president all the republicans in congress will feel bound to go along with his tax and spend policies. If it is Hildabeast, they might fight tooth and nail to stop her on everything; the chances of gridlock over socialist policies go up markedly.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

that were praised by the Heritage Foundation? The same tactics that are still being used by the Americans for Tax Reform?

Huck's fiscal record is the same as Reagan's record was when Reagan was Gov of California, and Huck will be as good a president as Reagan (maybe even better).

that last sentence could get you a Roast on Comedy Central you're soooo funny.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

of course not... it probably came in the Chuck is for Huck newsletter...where they tell the Hucksters who to bash today in the hopes of distracting people from Huckabee's record.

For instance, besides platitudes like "executive experience" has anyone but me noticed the complete lack of specifics on ANYTHING Huck has done or wants to do that he actually came up with himself?

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed032602a.cfm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/HL645.cfm
http://www.atr.org/state/projects/taxmemore.html

One is written by the Huckster. I am shocked he came off well in it.

The others are about his establishment of fund people can write checks to. Given the fact he is a preacher, I wouldn't be that it was a joke on his part.

So once again are the links to the Heritage foundation praising him for reducing taxes and improving AR.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

The others are about his establishment of fund people can write checks to. Given the fact he is a preacher, I wouldn't be that it was a joke on his part.

So once again are the links to the Heritage foundation praising him for reducing taxes and improving AR.

I didn't quite understand your point.

Probably because he said something that wasn't "GRRR candidates against Huckabee" or "YAAAAAAAYYYY!!!! Huckabee!"

Praising the Huckster

The ones you presented either don't or are written by him.

Oh the point is the links you presented don't make your case and if anyone reads them they rapidly see that.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

And what does it say ?

Not what you want it to.

It says he established a tax me more fund. It then remarks on the hypocrisy of people not contributing to it.

Care to actually come up with something the Heritage foundation praising the man ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Huck's fiscal record is the same as Reagan's record was when Reagan was Gov of California, and Huck will be as good a president as Reagan (maybe even better).

This is the assertion you made, and those links have nothing to do with it.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

Norquist:

Huckabee has signed the pledge circulated by Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform, promising to fight future tax increases. That has satisfied Norquist. “He has a troublesome history in supporting tax increases as governor, as did Ronald Reagan,” Norquist tells me. “But in running for president, he has made a written commitment that he would oppose tax increases.” Unless Huckabee breaks his word, he’ll be okay with Americans for Tax Reform.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzVmNmMyMjJmZTQwOGRhNTI0OWFiYTQ1ZTA...

You want a link of Grover saying that Fred is the worst candidate on taxes?

The reason why I said that Huck may be even better than Reagan was that Reagan didn't do so well on SCOTUS (I would say that GW did even better on SCOTUS).

You have a real problem backing up what you said

Once again where is the link saying Huckabee was better than Reagan.

Also the Huckster is really starting to develop a credibility gap. Especially since he can state he reduced taxes when he actually raised them.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Once again where is the link saying Huckabee was better than Reagan.

Read my comment again -- it is clearly my opinion.

Opinion
Hucks record is the same as Reagans when leaving California.

Sounds like a statement of fact to me.

Wheres the backup ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

mixed record like Reagan had. Read the quote from good ol Grover.

"econ grad stud" also had a diary a while back:

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/econ_grad_stud/2007/nov/25/we_shouldnt_nom...

“He has a troublesome history in supporting tax increases as governor, as did Ronald Reagan,”

Where is your statement that the percentage increases by Reagan were equivalent to Huckabee's ?

Also seeing as Reagan's tax increase was in the works before he took office and he reduced its size, its a little hard to make the comparison you are.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

This is straight from Reagan's mouth.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/govspeech/04011967a.htm

The situation is not as you Represent it.

The comparison you try to make is quite simply put grating and offensive. It does not earn your guy any points.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

a tax increase can be compared to Reagan? Fallacious reasoning at its worst. You're not even making this argument properly, since you should at least tell us by how much Reagan increased the tax burden in California overall during his entire term in office.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

I've been around long enough to see many, many RedState posters, contributors, commenters, etc. declare outright that they do not consider themselves Republicans except to the extent that the Party remains the home of their issues. In other words "conservative first, Republican second."

So, I suspect that you're right. People who define themselves first, foremost and solely as "Republicans" should be voting for Huck - it indeed does not make sense to vote for a Democrat in that case. If that is who you are addressing this to, then I think you are missing the people who are the ones likely to alter their votes in response to Huck - they are not "Republicans" in the manner in which you imply.

I for one have long since given up using that definition on myself. I'm a conservative - pretty across the board, but really I could care less about most social issues - they really aren't the proper domain of the feds anyway to me. Now to the extent Republicans nominate someone who is conservative on the issues I am most concerned about, then I will be a Republican. I register as one because that is where one typically finds the folks that I agree with. But if the Republican Party takes off down the road to liberalism, then I feel no need to follow it there.

Just as the SoCons made clear earlier that Rudy was unacceptable, so I say that, for me, Huckabee is unacceptable, and would be considered, by me, a repudiation of my beliefs by the Party. I don't see why I should be expected to blindly support a Party that thumbs its nose at me. And I don't see why I should even be asked to support it.

n. I am one of the SoCon, so to speak and would have a hard time supporting Mr. Romney, but I would because he is closer to my position than a democrat. I don't care how you label yourself, Huckabee is a whole lot to the the right on all issues than HRC, Obama or Edwards. And to win we need you,and you need us.

Fiscal- No difference
Security- Hillary is better (I can't believe I'm saying that)
Social- Don't care

Hillary better on defene. Geez, you gotta be for another candidate big time to say that about Huckabee, or all you do is read one side of issues. That is not only unfair, it is not even close to being true.

Issue         Hillary         Huckster
Taxes         More is better  More is better
Illegal imm   ditto           ditto
welfare       ditto           ditto
Healthcare    govt pays       Govt Pays but you get an option
Education     What Nea wants  What the Nea wants
FP            why cant we get along     Same for huck
Energy        Carbon Taxes    Energy independence in 10
Both equally likely and useful
Abortion      Doesn't matter they cant do anything 
HLA           Doesn't matter it wont happen
FMA           Doesn't matter it wont happen

So excepting feel good issues that don't matter there is precious little difference.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

..but he can't win. If someone like me who dispereately wants him to do well can't listen to him, you really think others will? Let's find a way for Duncan Hunter to win. Now who do we do that?

Looks like the Hucksters are now starting to worry about Fred... as they are now turning on the attacks like they did to Romney.

Every other candidate with the usual exception comes out far better.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

I mean here at RedState, when Brad Smith posted Complete this Sentence: I support Duncan Hunter for President Because__________, it got only seven responses, and most were theoretical. Mine was the only one more than a few sentences long. I didn't see you there, by the way.

It's puzzling - other than trade, his program would attract all three components of the Republican coalition: social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and strong defense. He's intelligent, articulate, and has a clean personal life.

He also can sell conservatism beyond the Republican party.

But the perceptions game seems to dominate and he's been on the short end of that stick.

I also find it hard to see how you can start with Hunter and end up supporting Huckabee - the chasm seems too wide for me to bridge.

And Rightly So!

he's not electable.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

First of all, Huckabee has signed the Americans for Tax Reform pledge not to raise taxes. He has a plan for the border that doesn't involve amnesty. You're confusing his record with what he's pledged to do.

I am also aware of his past record on pledges.

Somehow tax increases etc are morphed into things that don't break his pledges. A surcharge on a tax winds up not being a tax.

______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Are you actually telling us that we NEED to completely disregard his record because he's not running on that... he's running on a bunch of pledges?

Wow... so the executive experience he boasts about is no longer going to be brought up right... from now on, Huckabee is simply a 2007 wonder and we only listen to what he says on the campaign trail.

OK... deal. Still don't like whatever crap he's peddling.

I can see not supporting Huckabee and even not voting or voting for a third party in protest. But I can't support voting for the Democrats and still considering yourself a Republican.

Actually, voting for a D for President (and an R for Senate) can be a sound R strategy. The Ds are almost certain to control congress. The only tool Rs will have is the filibuster. Rs are likely to filibuster a D President's unsound policies, but it will be almost impossible for the to filibuster Huckabee's unsound strategies.

I want a President who will shout "stop" on fiscal idiocies, but, if I can't get that President, I'll take 41 Senators motivated to do the same. Huckabee is, for me, the worst of all worlds in this.

In any event, I don't claim to be a "good" Republican. I just vote for Republicans when they're pursuing policies with which I agree (which is frequent).

For we have a peculiar power of thinking before we act, and of acting, too, whereas other men are courageous from ignorance but hesitate upon reflection.

None of the above is a principled vote, as well. If neither the Democrat nor the Republican nominee satisfies a particular inner threshold one holds in what they expect of a president, a protest vote is certainly legitimate and that decision should be respected.

If the Libertarian Party or Constitution Party nets a record turnout, that should send a message to the GOP about the wisdom of nominating a socialist whose only quality that recommends him to the president is that he's a Baptist minister.

I will never vote for a Democrat, and there are very few Republicans who could cause me to not vote for the GOP nominee for president. Mike Huckabee is the only one running this year who could do so. I'd even vote for Ron Paul before I voted for Mike Huckabee. While Ron Paul is stridently wrong on foreign policy, at least he's a social conservative and a certain nutty strain of an economic conservative.

I'd even vote for Ron Paul before I voted for Mike Huckabee.

Amen.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

this liberterian conservative would vote Huck over Paul. Insanity and anti-Americanism have nothing to do with political spectrum.

Molon Labe!

Huckabee's stand on foreign policy, which is about as bad a Paul's. But I'm not going to defend Paul here, all this is just arguing whether a rock is better than a hard place and I'd rather not get too much into either.

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
--Rudy Giuliani

Molon Labe!

“None of the above is a principled vote”

Principle: Cast a vote for one of the candidates who has a reasonable chance to be elected, and who I judge will best govern the country; for the good of the country.

If by your “inner threshold” you intend that in your judgment one will be just as good as the other then I can respect your wasted vote. If however your “inner threshold” is a claim that none are perfect enough even though one will be better for the country than the other then I don’t (for the stated reason which you have not yet challenged). Your message is: sail it my way or I am going to sink the ship. Fie! And I expect my reaction is not uncommon among mortals.

If I think that both the Democrat and Republican will be absolutely miserable presidents, then the only principled thing to do is to not vote or vote in protest.

If we're talking any Democrat vs. Mike Huckabee, then we have to throw "perfect" out the window. If the election were between Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez, the only principled thing to do is vote for neither.

And Rightly So!

Seriously, where do people get that idea?

You have candidate A and candidate B, both of whom suck, but candidate A doesn't suck quite as badly as B. So your response: stay home (or leave it empty, write-in Mickey Mouse, vote 3rd party... all of which amount to the same thing).

What do you gain from this? You are helping candidate B win, even though you believe he is worse than candidate A. Congratulations on a job well done.

You know, the world keeps spinning even if you don't vote. They aren't going to say "Oh no! RainbowRepublican didn't vote! I guess we better call this election off and find some new candidates!"

BTW... I would vote for Castro since he seems to be about half dead already.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

"If I think that both the Democrat and Republican will be absolutely miserable presidents, then the only principled thing to do is to not vote or vote in protest."

If you are saying that in your judgment the balance sheet (good vs. bad) is equal for the two candidates, I hope you see I already granted you respect for a protest or non-vote.

And if in the next paragraph you intend that we must throw the "perfect" out the window for the sake of the good, then we are in complete agreement.