I'd like "Cynical Betrayal of the Democratic Netroots" for $500, Alex.
What is "The Upcoming FISA Reconciliation?"
By Moe Lane Posted in Congress | FISA | Great Netroot Betrayal | Kneel Before Zod — Comments (19) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
To break an impasse over legislation overhauling the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, House Democratic leaders are considering the option of taking up a Senate-passed FISA bill in stages, congressional sources said today. Under the plan, the House would vote separately on the first title of the bill, which authorizes surveillance activities, and then on the bill’s second title, which grants retroactive legal immunity to telecommunications companies that aided the Bush administration’s warrantless electronic surveillance activities. The two would be recombined, assuming passage of both titles. In this way, Democratic leaders believe they can give an out to lawmakers opposed to the retroactive immunity provision. Republican leadership sources said their caucus would back such a plan because not only would it give Democratic leaders the out they need, it would provide a political win for the GOP. It remains to be seen if such a move will placate liberal Democrats who adamantly oppose giving in to the Bush administration on the immunity issue.
The link above, by the way, is not to the original, which is behind a subscription wall; it's to an upset Netrooter, albeit one not as upset as s/he will be once this passes. Alternatively, you can read karl of Protein Wisdom, who is just about as amused over this as I am.
No further commentary necessary, except that I really wish that the Democrats would start subordinating their primary fund-raising requirements to their responsibilities as legislators, instead of the other way around. I understand that they don't want to pass FISA with retroactive immunity until after their post-3/5 revenue generation blitz, but if they had just passed this two weeks ago they wouldn't be in this mess. Fourteen days is plenty of time for the netroots to get over a fit of pique.
« Rep. Capuano's Newspeak for Censorship — Comments (5) | McCain Backs Amendment to Halt Congressional Earmarks — Comments (17) »
I'd like "Cynical Betrayal of the Democratic Netroots" for $500, Alex. 19 Comments (0 topical, 19 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
Stratify the issue and assign the sticky points to the lower strata. Less visibility when you work underground, eh?
As a practicing Lib, I'm pretty sure the ADD Netroots will sub-serve any outrage to their BDS Moby Dick. As an "old" Lib, it saddens me that the party has again opted for politic over principle.
With all of the cynicism, snark, and orthogonality of perspective in this thread, I must admit a bit of confusion. Really. As an "'old' Lib", what would you like to see the Congress pass?
More generally, should the leadership do any grandstanding to "speak out" on an issue they know will ans should pass, to let their people know they're passing it grudgingly?
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
I'd like to see legislation crafted that encompasses the whole issue without bifrication for political points. I think Dems are using the telecomm immunity piece to avoid a debate on the whole FISA issue. They see it as politically hazardous and are gaming to avoid debate.
As an Old Lib, I remember when we took more stands on principle. (just my opinion) Maybe that's why I gravitate to Redstate. I apologize for any cynical snarkiness but what's an old lib to do?
My guess is they want the spying part in place rapidly. They aren't stupid and don't particularly like the idea of airplanes flying into where they work.
The problem is the BLOOD SUCKING LEACHLIKE MAGGOTS Trial Lawyers have allready gotten their fangs into a potential payday and don't want to let it go.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
You're being unkind to both leeches and maggots, who don't deserve that kind of comparison.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
to get to the crux of the matter. Yes, I think, on the whole, Dems are for the so called "spying" part. They want it because it makes sense but won't face it head on because it doesn't play well to the kos types, especially in this election year.
As to the trial lawyers, both liberal and conservative blood are equally tasty.
I think we are all better off to focus on that, and leave cynical motives to those who practice them. If I understand this issue correctly, the dem leadership was OK with this program when it started. Why they turned against it, and would put patriots at risk for cooperating with what was apparently a lawful cooperation, is beyond me.
If this FISA reform passes, America is better off, and as a patriot I am pleased with that.
It will be a sad betrayal of justice. It will also be one more step towards being a banana republic.
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
If the Gov asks me to help win the war, and I comply, then I should not be sued for fighting.
It would not be nice (but would be convenient) if some terrorist activity occurred during this hiatus of FISA. So that NEXT year Congress could spend endless hours debating WHY the CIA or the NSA or the DHS didn't detect some plot because telephone calls are private.
I would like to think that Congress is insisting on protecting Joe Schmuck in Arlington, against intrusion of his phone call with Abdul Bin Big Bomb in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Iraq. But they are not.
Democrat FDR was happy to have American industry ... even The Mafia ... rat out saboteurs ... but Party is more important than People, so today's Democrats would rather let an incident happen than give up the right to sue "a greed-mongering corporation" for helping prevent it.
By all means, drop immunity ... make the lawyers rich (because they've contributed $72 million to Democrats, this season alone.
And forget about any American industry ever helping Congress again.
The dems are not balking at amnesty to protect trial lawyers.
And they're not against telecoms, necessarily.
I've been a bad boy and done some skulking around on the lefty nutjob er.. progressive blogs..
And, basically, they want Bush.. pure and simple. And the reasoning goes that if the telecoms don't get immunity, some lawsuits will finally go through, which will open up the administration's records for obtaining these "illegal" wiretaps.
Then.. they will be able to prosecute Bush/Cheney/etc.. for all their "crimes". It's eating up the lefties that Bush is nearly done with his term and he's not in shackles in a dungeon somewhere. They see telecom lawsuits as their "back door" to prosecute the entire Bush Administration.
So, they have mounted phone call campaigns to members of Congress demanding that no immunity be granted. They have been doing fairly well this year in uniting their side, so I can imagine the number of phone calls Congresspersons have received this last few weeks.
I just can't wait to see how apoplectic the Kossacks and the rest of them get if this split up version passes... This "betrayal" by the members of Congress they think they control is just icing on the cake! yee ha!
It has everything to do with appeasing the trial lawyers. Well, that, and the fact Speaker Pelosi doesn't handle rejection very well.
BDS™ is a powerful tool. The Democratic leadership push the right buttons, and the Nutroots instinctively comply.
Eliminating the telecom immunity provision from the bill creates a windfall profit opportunity for the trial lawyers, and would "effectively" render the NSA's Terrorist Surveillance Program as inoperable.
It's also worth mentioning that a substantial portion of said profits would find their way to Democratic coffers in the standard quid pro quo arrangement.
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
But you have to ask don't they laugh just as hard when the same thing happens to us ?
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
for allowing the Republican leadership to get away with creating the Prescription Drug Entitlement.
The same could probably be said for the "waiver of accountability" provisions included in No Child Left Behind.
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
Is your own ;-)
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
We probably owe that victory, in large part, to the comprehensive analysis and dissemination of information provided by the Heritage Foundation. The grass-roots movement was well-educated.
I understand the logic behind co-opting a wedge-issue in order to remove it from your opponent's campaign playbook, but this one (prescription drug benefit) is going to be costly.
On another note: The consumer is likely to absorb the cost of removing the telecom immunity provisions from the bipartisan Senate bill, and they can be confident that a sizeable contribution to Democratic campaign coffers will be made on their behalf.
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
Implying, nay, declaring outright that the Democrats in the Congressional leadership don't have heartfelt opposition to FISA but are only using it to tweak their base.
Surely the nation will fall, and civilization with it, if these telecommunication companies are held harmless for helping the government (that the Bush Administration!) track calls between overseas terrorists which route through American copper.
Your humble reader,
Snarcrates
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.